Curse

Ctb · May 16, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

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i went round to the dot and discovers its a warrior that is using a bow........

Well, how the hell else did you want him to pull? DUH! </sarcasm>

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You must play with your team til you die, even if your team is noob.

Er... yea... welcome to RA.

Although, a lot of people test builds in RA too and, well, sometimes those builds just don't work in practice quite like you thought they might on paper....

Alex the Great · May 16, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

dude to get dishonarable you have to leave 2 parties.

how often do you get parties you need to leave?

If you are so against Dishonor, quick going to RA

Zahr Dalsk · May 16, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

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Originally Posted by Alex the Great

how often do you get parties you need to leave?

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

dunky_g · May 16, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

99% of the teams in RA are stupid. 100% have one person that is stupid. Only the synced teams dont have any stupid people.

DutchSmurf · May 16, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

So you are playing in an arena where almost everyone is stupid. Guess that makes perfectly sense. It is like saying you don't like getting wet, but you still keep jumping into a pool over and over.

Turtle222 · May 16, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

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Originally Posted by dunky_g

99% of the teams in RA are stupid. 100% have one person that is stupid. Only the synced teams dont have any stupid people.

In your opinion of course. I disagree

BlackSephir · May 16, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

But the difference between RANDOM and TEAM arena is something you won't understand, right?

Sir Pandra Pierva · May 16, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

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Originally Posted by DutchSmurf

So you are playing in an arena where almost everyone is stupid. Guess that makes perfectly sense. It is like saying you don't like getting wet, but you still keep jumping into a pool over and over.

i like it.

seriously if you keep leaving your groups till you get a non retarted one you'll be spending all day doing that instead of pvping.
RA is a good way to waste time and laugh at some idiots you run into and on your team.

But the leaving issue i think was a huge ass problem

DreamWind · May 16, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Wow...I think it is pretty ridiculous that some of my really good posts got deleted and they weren't even flamebait (although many posts directed at them were). I love Guru at times.

I still stand by what I said that you can do a forum search and you will find tons of hate for dishonorable, whether or not it is vocalized in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Ctb

I didn't say anything about his opinions. The comment that was deleted for, as usual, no reason, stated quite clearly that his opinion was irrelevant because the purpose of the game is to make ANET money. He's in a very tiny minority with his opinion, and tiny minorities aren't profitable when each individual customer pays the same amount. Therefore, his opinion is, for all practical purposes, inconsequential.

If the number one purpose game is to make money, then the game is going to be a failure. Period. I think one of the Anet founders has stated that multiple times. The purpose of a game is to make the best product. The money is simply a result of that.

And besides, what you just typed is exactly the line of thinking that severely brought down PvP from its past high points.

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Originally Posted by Ctb

He can hold whatever foolhardy opinion he wants, no matter how ridiculous it is. That doesn't mean anybody has to care about it. I'm certainly under no obligation to respect it. He has every right to his opinion, and I respect that right. His opinion, however, is stupid, and I don't respect that.

And you want people to respect your "minority doesn't matter" opinion?

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Originally Posted by Ctb

Also, why in the hell are mods deleting my flamebait comments instead of just locking the whole flamebait thread?

They are only deleting your posts because you are one of the people who was flamebaiting. As far as I'm concerned the thread is legit and shouldn't be locked. We are discussing whether or not dishonorable is good, not whether or not it is going to be removed.

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Originally Posted by Ctb

A small number of people who used to make RA annoying get hexed and don't think it's fair that they now have to play by the intended rules of the match. Pretty much everybody else thinks they're ridiculous and doesn't care because they're too busy enjoying RA and AB while the whiners have to sit out with the hex they earned.

I think you are missing a point. The dishonorable hex (along with everything that came with it) CHANGED the rules of RA. The original rules (which was basically no rules) are no longer intact and some don't like it. I don't play RA much anymore not because I am a habitual leaver, but because I don't like what has happened to it.

Not to mention, dishonorable promotes so many activities that people don't like that I am kind of shocked nobody is mentioning the downsides of it, even if they believe it IS good for RA.

credit · May 17, 2008, 12:33 AM // 00:33

You all bitched about leechers and leavers, and now you bitch about this? Come on.

shru · May 17, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

Not to mention, dishonorable promotes so many activities that people don't like that I am kind of shocked nobody is mentioning the downsides of it, even if they believe it IS good for RA.

Care to list these activities? The only thing that it could effect negitively are those who are forced to leave their computers for what ever reason and end up reported for it. Other than that, it's doing its job (keeping people like you from ruining the fun of others) which of course you're still free to do, just not without consequences now.
Again I'll say it, if you can't stand the "Randomness" of Random Arenas, go play TA.

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Originally Posted by credit

You all bitched about leechers and leavers, and now you bitch about this? Come on.

Except now it's the leechers and leavers doing all the bitching

Axagoth Baal · May 17, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Dishonorable - best idea ever. Everyone had enough of leavers. I enjoy RA much more now that leavers are gone.

DreamWind · May 17, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I'm kind of bored of this topic but I love how people get riled up about it so I'm continuing.

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Originally Posted by shru

Care to list these activities?

Syncing, griefing, false reporting (or being falsely reported), playing super defense builds, running, being locked out of PvP for accidental/bad reasons, having plenty of downtime during games without being able to leave, and more but I'm too tired to think of them.

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Originally Posted by shru

Other than that, it's doing its job (keeping people like you from ruining the fun of others).

Assuming I am a leaver (which I never said I was), what about my fun? You would be better off saying that since I am in the minority I just have to live with it, which is the extent of the argument people are using here.

Also another point...if I am in the extreme minority on this (as some claim), then why did it need to be implemented to begin with? The leavers must have been in the extreme minority before as well, thus causing minimal disruption. If there were a ton of leavers, it means a ton of people didn't like the change.

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Originally Posted by shru

Again I'll say it, if you can't stand the "Randomness" of Random Arenas, go play TA.

I don't know why this argument is still used.

Randomness is a lack of order, purpose, cause, or predictability in non-scientific parlance. A random process is a repeating process whose outcomes follow no describable deterministic pattern, but follow a probability distribution.

Random arenas have lost ALL of the bolded over time. It lost the lack of order (because dishonorable forces order) and it lost lack of cause (because of glad points). I could easily say that if somebody left in the middle of the match, then it was a RANDOM occurence for you. If you go into RA, RANDOM things will happen.

Also, saying "go to TA" makes no sense. The entire point of RA is for people who don't have a TA team or don't have time for TA. If I had people logged on for PvP I wouldn't be anywhere near the arenas. You'd be better off advocating changes to TA rather than saying get out of RA.

yum · May 17, 2008, 05:28 PM // 17:28

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

Also, saying "go to TA" makes no sense. The entire point of RA is for people who don't have a TA team or don't have time for TA. If I had people logged on for PvP I wouldn't be anywhere near the arenas. You'd be better off advocating changes to TA rather than saying get out of RA.

Need change for TA? Remove Glad points from RA and we have a decent start.

Sir Pandra Pierva · May 17, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

The hex has its huge problems.
it gives griefers more power over idiotic things but the timer was a good idea for trying to take care of that.

How ever the leaver problem was so damn huge. it got to the point that you needed to basicly be a monk to get a group to stay together. 5 days and not a single full group ya i think that needed to be fixed and the dishonorable was the best way to deal with it.

savage vapor 33 · May 17, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I love the dishonorable idea. Maybe its just me haha...

If you leave during a battle in real life you get dishonored as well...Good job Anet

*No Sarcasm*

HawkofStorms · May 17, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

This is the kind of behavior dishonorable was designed to stop, which it has. A.net didn't like it that 8 out of every 10 RA games had a leaver prior to the fight because their team had "noobs" (90% of the time, the quiters were the noobs).

Red Sand · May 17, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

This thread is ridiculous. It is also amusing.

thedarkmarine · May 17, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

Lol. Awesome. This Q.Q proves the system is working!

MoriaOrc · May 17, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

I'm kind of bored of this topic but I love how people get riled up about it so I'm continuing.

Sorry if I'm not especially riled up, but I'll respond to your post anyway.

Lets start with the list of "things Dishonorable promotes."

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Syncing

I'm not sure how you came up with this one. There are two things that probably cause people to sync: The reward (in Glad points) for having an above average team every time, and the fun of winning most of your matches. If anything, Dishonorable makes this harder. Before Dishonorable, syncers could leave at the beginning of the round if they got on the wrong team. Now they can only do that once before Dishonorable kicks in and slows them down. Granted, other things like the district merge have made this a lot easier, but once again that has nothing to do with dishonorable.

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griefing

Since this is basically the same as the next two (unless there was some other form of griefing you were to tired to remember), I'll get to it there.

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false reporting (or being falsely reported), being locked out of PvP for accidental/bad reasons

These are basically the same.

While the possibility is there, it honestly never happens. I've played thousands of RA matches since dishonorable was put in, and I've seen false reporting once, maybe twice, in all that time. With that rate of occurance, no one should be able to get a dishonorable hex just from false reporting (since you can only get 6 Dishonorable points from reports in a single match), and you are extremely unlikely to get falsely reported in multiple matches in the same hour.

If you're talking about falsely reporting as a method of griefing, one person falsely reporting everyone is more likely to get Dishonorable on themselves then they are to get anyone else to have the hex (this happened to me once: someone using a griefing build falsely reported everyone else, then we all reported him. That's 12 points to the guy that deserved it and only 2 for the rest of us).

In AB this is somewhat worse, as there may be legitimate reasons to AFK for a minute or two during the longer matches, during which time someone might report you. It's still not likely to result in a hex (especially if you say something in team chat first), and shouldn't happen very often.

The only people this affects in the way you mean are people with bad connections or unstable computers. If your connection is bad enough that you frequently drop from matches and get dishonorable from it, consider how much fun your teammates must be having and take a break from PvP until you can get those issues sorted out please.

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playing super defense builds, running, having plenty of downtime during games without being able to leave

Griefing builds were common enough in RA before dishonorable. If anything they are now less common because the timer change made them less effective. Yes, it is annoying that I can't just leave when some runner or terra tank refuses to surrender. This is probably the only real negative effect of Dishonorable on normal players. But the builds themselves are less common then they were, and their effect on enemy teams has been significantly reduced. On the whole I'd say that it's better now then it was.

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Assuming I am a leaver (which I never said I was), what about my fun? You would be better off saying that since I am in the minority I just have to live with it, which is the extent of the argument people are using here.

It's not about how many of which there are. It's about how RA was meant to be played. There are two groups: leavers and non-leavers. One is playing RA "as intended" (getting put in a random team and taking that team as far as they can), the other is not (leaving groups until they get in a "good" team). Before dishonorable it had gotten to the point where you could not play "as intended" because leavers were too common.

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Also another point...if I am in the extreme minority on this (as some claim), then why did it need to be implemented to begin with? The leavers must have been in the extreme minority before as well, thus causing minimal disruption. If there were a ton of leavers, it means a ton of people didn't like the change.

Because even if only 1/10 people are leavers, that means about every third team I join has a leaver in it (assuming I am not one myself). In reality, the rate was much higher then this, with probably more like 1/5 people being leavers (meaning: every other game and sometimes back-to-back games). Like I said above, this made them common enough that RA was becoming unplayable for people trying to play it as intended.

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Randomness is a lack of order, purpose, cause, or predictability in non-scientific parlance. A random process is a repeating process whose outcomes follow no describable deterministic pattern, but follow a probability distribution.

Random arenas have lost ALL of the bolded over time. It lost the lack of order (because dishonorable forces order) and it lost lack of cause (because of glad points). I could easily say that if somebody left in the middle of the match, then it was a RANDOM occurence for you. If you go into RA, RANDOM things will happen.

The random in random arenas is obviously referring exclusively to team composition. Nothing after the start of the match is random (except when you get criticals and where your damage falls in your weapon's range). The correct quote is:

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If you go into RA, you team up with RANDOM people.

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Also, saying "go to TA" makes no sense. The entire point of RA is for people who don't have a TA team or don't have time for TA. If I had people logged on for PvP I wouldn't be anywhere near the arenas. You'd be better off advocating changes to TA rather than saying get out of RA.

Saying "Go to TA" makes perfect sense when the excuse for leaving is "I want good people on my team." You can go pug in TA and check everyones builds before entering if you don't have anyone you know to PvP with. That way you're guaranteed you won't be playing with anyone you consider to have a bad build.